I have used my Malaysia Yahoo emailing address within the group as an ordinary member.
Hope you will gain some insights from this conversation.
Thanks.
With Love,
Zulkifli Mahmood
Subjek: Newbie
Hello All,
Name is Zulkifli Mahmood but you can call me as Joe, which is a pet name given to me by my parents since I was a toddler. Age is 43 years old and I'm a Singaporean but staying in Malaysia, Johor State, Skudai District, Malaysia.
Came across this group while I was browsing the yahoo emailing group directory. I find this group interesting for it is about looking for and sharing of advise, opinion and views. That is good and I like it.
I look forward in participating within this group.
Thanks.
With Love,
Joe
Zulkifli wrote:
"Age is 43 years old and I'm a Singaporean but staying in Malaysia, Johor State, Skudai District, Malaysia."
They sure have some tough laws there.
But I can't argue with the beheading of drug smugglers really.
The IC industry has changed that whoile part of the world since I was there.
But I bet it is still like steambath huh Joe?
Peyton Quinn
Subjek: Balasan: Re: [whatdomenwantanyways2] Newbie
Hi Quinn
Quinn wrote:
"They sure have some tough laws there."
Hmmm..which country talking about? Singapore or Malaysia. Well..both countries practise quite a stringent law.
Quinn wrote:
"But I can't argue with the beheading of drug smugglers really."
(LOLs)..beheading of drug smugglers?? Not beheading but hang till death are practise by both countries. Over 15 grms and thats it.
Quinn wrote:
"The IC industry has changed that whoile part of the world since I was there."
Yes, this part of the world is not the same anymore since the last time you came to this region. When was the last time you visited Singapore or Malaysia Quinn?
Quinn wrote:
"But I bet it is still like steambath huh Joe?"
Yes Quinn; but towards the end of the year, it is not too bad. We have cooler climate and lots of rain falls.
Thanks for the response, for asking and nice talking to you Quinn.
With Love,
Joe
quinnp1@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/15/2006 12:09:01 PM Mountain Standard Time, zuljoe1963@yahoo.com.my writes:
Zulkifli wrote:
"(LOLs)..beheading of drug smugglers?? Not beheading but hang till death are practise by both countries. Over 15 grms and thats it."
Hanging is worse in my view, I would rather be beheaded.
Zulkifli wrote:
"you came to this region. When was the last time you visited Singapore or Malaysia Quinn?"
Let's see, I guess it was 1970? I was one of those ex-patriotys who wandered around a bit in SE Asia a bit before coming home. It is so crowded there it is easy to get lost in a way.
I do remember the rich Muslims going to expensive hotels in Kuala Limpur to engage in all the vices forbidden in the Koran.
My money (US dollars) went a long way back then though.
Peyton Quinn
zulkifli mahmood zuljoe1963@yahoo.com.my wrote:
Tarikh: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:37:58 +0800 (CST) Subjek: Re: [whatdomenwantanyways2] Newbie
Hi! Quinn
Sorry for the late reply. Have been out from the internet for a few days, helping my friend with his personal problem.
Quinn wrote:
"Hanging is worse in my view, I would rather be beheaded."
Well, this is my personal opinion. Whatever the death sentence is or are, I do not support them. I find them rather inhumane and unjust. That is my view.
Quinn wrote:
"Let's see, I guesss it was 1970? I was one of those ex-patriotys who wandered around a bit in SE Asia a bit before coming home. It is so crowded there it is easy to get lost in a way."
Yes, you can get lost of the way but asking questions and directions would actually help you find you way. Well, we talking about the Vietnam war era here and most Westerners would see this part of the world as a terrible place to be at that period of time because there were wars, diseases, poverty and etc. Now, this part has been able to maintain peace and I wish there is no more wars to fight amongs us or amongs mankind.
Quinn wrote:
"I do remeber the rich Muslims going to expensive hotels in Kuala Limpur to engage in all the vices forbiden in the Koran."
It happens in all faiths. They have their freewill to choose the good and the bad. I find it rather interesting why they do that, I mean not only amongs Moslems but in believers from other faiths too. This is what I call Human Nature and its the will of theirs against or for the religious precepts. I have no quarrells with them and so, I let them be as long as they do not stop me from doing something I love or like to do and they are not standing in my way. So far so good and if I cannot do those things I like to do, then I just go away to another place where I could or else I just tolerate and keep my mouth shut.
Quinn wrote:
"My money (US dollars) went a long way back then though"
I think its still does though it is not as much as in your time back then, but if you talking about going places like Thailand, Indonesia, The Philippines and Indo-China, US dollar is still the main currency that most people would like to trade for.
Hey, thanks for the respond. I see you later.
With Love,
Joe
Zulkifli wrote:
"Well, this is my personal opinion. Whatever the death sentence is or are, I do not support them. I find them rather inhumane and unjust. That is my view."
I can understand people who do not accept the death penalty on spiritual grounds.I just do not number among them. There are some crimes that demand the person be executed. Consider the Nazi war criminal at the Nuremberg trials.
Zulkifli wrote:
"..wars to fight amongs us or amongs mankind."
I most certainly agree within you there sir. If we could put an end to war this Earth could become a paradise.
Unfortunately, war is in our human natures too.
Peyton Quinn
Subjek: Balasan: Re: [whatdomenwantanyways2] Newbie
Hello Quinn.
Good Afternoon.
Joyful to see your response. I just got back from Johor Baru and I am now in Singapore for a few days.
I will be most delightful to have this conversation with you Quinn. Really interesting discussion here we are having but is this alittle out of the topic from the current objective and motive of this group. I hope the other members within this group do not mind of our little 'foreign affairs' discussion here.
Quinn wrote:
"I can understand people who do not accept the death penalty on spiritual grounds."
I don't really consider my opinion as on spiritual ground, rather on moral values. I am not religious or pious myself for your information. However, we cannot deny too that moral values originally derived from spiritual or religious beliefs. That came to be adhered by many after they have or had done their part to become good and faithful believers. I would think of that as a way to make humans more civilized and perhaps more intelligent or conscientious in looking at serious matters from various angles before we could actually judged and condemned someone to death.
I for one would like to know who was the one that had actually found out that death sentence is inhumane and unjust. You know of any or anyone? Let me know please. I think that would be Jesus himself if I am not mistaken.
Quinn wrote:
"I just do not number among them."
Well, I guess you have your own equal rights as to those who opposed to the death sentence too. It is like a counter check balance mechanism like in any countries that uphold human rights and human freedom.
As for myself, I changed my opinion and view pertinent to the death sentence after..lets say...I had heard about seven years of young and old people death cries just minutes before they were executed. That really altered my mind and I wish you could hear them too just like I did in the past. Then you will see what I mean and why I changed my stance.
I was like you thinking that they deserved it and at the end, I realized that I am also a man and I could also make minor or major mistakes in my life. It is a matter of being at the right time, place and last of all, the condition or circumstances which will follow as you think or decide what is best option or action or what is most important to make the problem stopped or to control it completely.
Quinn wrote:
"There are some crimes that demand the person be executed. Consider the Nazi war criminal at the Nuremberg trials."
Well, Hitler got off easy by committing suicide. And Mussolini was hanged by the partisans.
In wars, many would like to see those responsible or irresponsible for the devastation and suffering of humankind during the war, be punished and terminated. Justice and the laws...my good man...is the law that can be broken or upheld. It cannot be denied for a fact that those directly involved should be punished and put to death when it is justified or lawful...just to please and satisfied the sufferers, victims, friends and next of kin of those whom had perished in wars or in murder cases for instance.
I think if they want to see those responsible to suffer for the loss of lives of their loved ones, death sentence is an easy means of escape for the condemned. I would rather have those responsible be sentenced to life imprisonment till death for that would be like hell for them on earth.
That is like a formal restitution for them to see what they did is cruel or sadistic; it came out from nowhere or through mandatory orders when they were to obey the instructions or not thinking straight or refused to listen to their conscience. They might even learn something out from there and changed to become a better person instead. That is, Mercy and Life should be cherished and not destroyed.
I guess you have not seen those who were tortured to death and those who were exterminated from gun fires or hanged till death in your life time. So am I but I have heard the death cries almost every week. I know it is not a pleasant thing to see and it will make you sicked when seeing it itself make you think of yourself whether you are a human being or an untamed animal.
Soldiers fought in battles will tell you what it is like to see death coming from everywhere. I guess you have seen some combat actions before like as my uncle did during WW2. Vietnam war is one good example. Was the North Vietnamese cruelty or The Americans cruelty, that put the people of Vietnam to look at their country history as a nightmare world? Where are the war criminals and death sentence for war perpetrators from both countries. None I guess.
Quinn wrote:
"I most certainly agree with you there sir. If we could put an end to war this Earth could become a paradise."
Yes, it would be but I know that it is only a wishful thinking or an etopian dream for most politicians or world leaders. There is always war when we see ourselves as not one race and one world. Objective of that would make most of us think like many of us who like peace and harmony. That would take a few thousand years more or never at all, depending on what we do now for the future of mankind. Any suggestion from your part perhaps Mr Quinn.
Quinn wrote:
"Unfortunately, war is in our human natures too."
Like the gladiators' battled in the coloseum during the Roman Empire era. Well, the meaning of self defense and a country defense for survival and protection became a world pandemonium for more control over wealths and mineral resources within its own sovereignty and abroad. Like in the ancient period of many great conquerors throughout the histories of past mankind.
Thanks again and shall we end this or look forward to make this into a context for word of advise to the world leaders.
With Love,
Joe
"...I had heard about seven years of young and old people death cries just minutes before they were executed. That really altered my mind and I wish you could hear them too just like I did in the past. Then you will see what I mean and why I changed my stance"
Well, unfortunately I have heard the screams of the dying.That made me see war for what it was , man's greatest failing.
I think the death penalty should be used somewhat spar4sely and these must be standards to impose it. For example, without the death penalty convicted lifers in prison would have no deterrent at all to killing prison guards.
I do think the death penalty should be done in painless and humane way like lethal injection which is how we do it here in the US..
Zulkifli wrote:
"..were exterminated from gun fires or hanged till death in your life time."
It is true I have never seen anyone hanged. I do not ever condone torture of anyone and would not tolerate it from my comrades or superiors even when I was sent to war.
Zulkifli wrote:
"..Americans cruelty, that put the people of Vietnam to look at their country history as a nightmare world?"
Well this is something that my history forces me to have strong opiniomns on. We did not torture the North Vietnames POW's (of course there were exceptions). But the North Vietnames tortured all the pilots shot down as a matter of policy. Keep in mind that at no time did I ever think the war would end in other way than it did.
I like your perspective, it is one dominated by hope and rue humanity.
Peyton Quinn
Subjek: Balasan: Re: [whatdomenwantanyways2] Newbie
Hello Quinn.
Good Morning.
Quinn wrote:
"Well, unfortunately I have heard the screams of the dying.That made me see war for what it was, man's greatest failing."
Yes, I suspected that by the way you wrote your statement about South-East Asia region and you gave me the impression of The Vietnam War.
Quinn wrote:
"I think the death penalty should be used somewhat spar4sely and thee must be standards to impose it."
"I do think the death penalty should be done in painless and humane way like lethal injection which is how we do it here in the US.."
Well, I do respect your opinion and I can see that at least you have some room for mercy.
Quinn wrote:
"For example, without the death penalty convicted lifers in prison would have no deterrent at all to killing prison guards."
That depends on the security measures of the prison authority and it rarely happens especially in countries whereby inmates are monitored and the prison guards are highly trained to prevent such event from occuring.
Quinn wrote:
"It is true I have never seen anyone hanged. I do not ever condone torture of anyone and would not tolerate it from y comrades or superiors even when I was sent to war."
I have served in the Singapore Armed Forces during my National Service from 1981 to 1983. I was in the Artillery Unit and I have never seen any combat action during my military service.
However, my uncle had been forced to enlist into the Japanese Imperial Army during the Japanese Occupation of Singapore in WW2. He was a junior officer and he was assigned to guard, capture and also maybe oversaw the execution of the captured escapees of the Commonwealth Allied Forces PoW military personnel and the local collaborators with the allied forces.
In 1945, during the close of the war, his company was sent to Peninsula Malaya perhaps to reinforce the defense lines of the Japanese Army but my father told me that his brother was sent to Burma which, he was also unsure. His family was unsure where my uncle was sent to for his military duty. When the war ended, my uncle did not return home. My father's family waited for his returned and they had enquired for his whereabout. There were no news. Finally, they gave up hope and concluded that he was probably killed in action...or was executed.
As for myself, I had served a 10 year prison sentence in Changi Prison (an old prison whereby in the past it housed the WW2 PoWs) from 1996 to 2002 for a cheating crime that I had committed in 1991/92. I was housed in the hall next to the condemn inmates hall. I have heard the death cries almost every week.
Quinn wrote:
"Well this is something that my histroty forces me to have strong opiniomns on. We did not torture the North Vietnames POW's (of course there were exceptions). But the North Vietnames tortured all the pilots shot down as a matter of policy. Keep in mind that at no time did I ever think the war would end in other way than it did."
I have to admit that at least you still have conscience during your tour in Nam. In general, in wars, the military will used whatever means to extract information from a captured PoW, regardless of whether it was from the Americans side or from the NVA.
Quinn wrote:
"I like your perspective, it sione dominated by hope and rue humanity."
Thanks for your kind words and likewise, I see you have a good conscience in the matter of war and peace.
See you later Quinn.
With Love,
Joe
quinnp1@aol.com wrote:
"As for myself, I had served a 10 year prison sentence in Changi Prison (an old prison whereby in the past it housed the WW2 PoWs) from 1996 to 2002 for a cheating crime that I had committed in 1991/92. I was housed in the hall next to the condemn inmates hall. I have heard the death cries almost every week."
I think that is more than I could endure. I am glad to see you left that prison with your humanity and rational hope still with you.
Peyton Quinn
zulkifli mahmood zuljoe1963@yahoo.com.my wrote:
Tarikh: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 01:34:32 +0800 (CST) Subjek: Re: [whatdomenwantanyways2] Newbie
Hello Quinn,
Thanks again for you kind words Quinn.
Twice while I was working as an Operating Theatre Technical Assistant (OTTA) in the operating theatre at Tan Tock Seng Hospital in Singapore in 2005, I witnessed two patients experience heart collapse and they were dying. The doctor managed to revive them but later in the ICU (Intensive Care Unit), they passed away.
I like to ask you for a permission to publish our interesting discussion at my blog website. Is it alright with you?
The address is at http://www.life-of-a-mankind.blogspot.com/
With Love,
Joe
"I like to ask you for a permission to publish our interesting discussion at my blog website. Is it alright with you?"
Yes, post it if you see fit.
Peyton Quinn
zulkifli mahmood zuljoe1963@yahoo.com.my wrote:
Tarikh: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:19:55 +0800 (CST) Subjek: Balasan: Re: [whatdomenwantanyways2] Newbie
Quinn, thank you.
With Love,
Joe